Bird Flu: What do you think?
February 4th, 2007 by Scott |
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06/02/2007 Update: The EAARC (East Anglian Animal Rights Coalition) has informed me that the information below is incorrect. The 160,000 turkeys are actually contained on one farm, and not in one factory as stated.
For anyone that doesn’t know already, a quick recap: Britain has been hit again with “Bird Flu” (HN51 Avian Influenza), this time at the mass producing turkey farm owned by “Bernard Matthews”.
I first saw the story on BBC TV on a break while I was at work, but didn’t really think about it too much until today, when I read about it in this article and also in this one
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I’m passionate about things like mass-farming, and in particular animals that never see the light of day.
The worst examples are chickens and turkeys that are crammed into small spaces where they can barely stand, and injected with all kinds of chemicals to make them grow bigger and therefore raise more money. In a situation such as this one, a disease could surely spread from one bird to another very fast indeed.
I’m interested to know what everyone else thinks to this. Is this outbreak partially the fault of Bernard Matthews? Or is it simply a natural occurrence whereby no blame whatsoever lies with them?
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I was listening to a program on the radio about this and it was pointed out that the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918 which killed more people than died in WW1, was in fact originally a bird virus. I can’t say for sure, but back then I wouldn’t think that intensive rearing of chickens would have been the norm. I can’t say yhat I agree with intensive factory farming, but a sick chicken is a sick chicken regardless of how it is raised, though surely it’s easier to deal with factory chickens and the virus less likely to spread from them, being contained and all. A few months ago a Canadian blogger told me that a law had been passed making it illegal to raise chickens outdoors because of bird flu.
Bernard Matthews – it couldn’t have happened to a nicer bloke. I problem is intensive farming which magnifies the effect of an epidemic. I’m against this whole intensive thing but there again is there enough meat at a reasonable price to go around without it. DIn Australia we are quite lucky in that our beef and sheep range widely in spacious fields. I believe it is our pigs and poultry that suffer. I suppose I’m lucky as i can afford the pricey organic stuff but many people can’t and unfortunately it is those people who are sucked-in by Turkey Twizzlers.
neil and ed: It’s a debate that could run and run, isn’t it? Something more to think about:
When a bird in the wild catches a disease, the bird will fly a little, and die – maybe not coming into contact with other birds. When a farmed bird dies, its carcass is in the midst of thousands of other birds, who have no choice but to catch the disease…
Another one…There is a chicken farm 5 miles from my house. A chicken I buy from the supermarket however, comes from a farm anywhere in the country, which has travelled via a distribution centre. Even a farmed chicken carcass does not stay local, whereas a wild one would.
Great points to think about, and I can see both sides of the argument. I’m keeping an open mind, and I’m interested to hear from others, too.
For a bird to catch influenza, the odd of happening is there. Virus mutates continuously, as befit the principle of “the survival of the fittest”. It’s nature. But with such density in a single area, it’s inevitable too that it’s going to spread all that more rapidly.
Now, a small digression. While disease is something that occurs naturally, the widespread misuse of antibiotics is leading to disease resistance, which is becoming more of an issue too. With all living thing where mutations are taking place, gene jumping is another possibility. I fear the weather may also play a role, where certain conditions which used to render the spread difficult has now altered and may facilitate disease transmission (but this is speculation, still under study).
Lil: All valid points. Bacteria is always one step ahead of us and always will be. It’s been stated on TV that this particular spread can be traced a stage back to turkeys recently imported from Hungary.
Why in this day in age are we transporting turkeys overseas when we have them (thousands and thousands of them) living and breeding in farms across the UK?
I am SO with you on the factory farming issue.
I’m so disgusted by the profiteering efforts of the entire industry….no matter what people choose to eat, I don’t get how anyone could agree with living creatures being subjected to such inhumane, disgusting conditions.
I did a lot of reading last month when I did a “vegan week” experiment for my blog, and I tell ya, it has completely changed my way of grocery shopping. No more meat at big box stores.
Anyway, thanks for posting this.
mrbunsrocks: Unfortunately, despite people generally saying they disagree with this type of treatment, the very fact they buy the produce endorses it.
Factory farming has created such a host of ills (from animal welfare to degradation of the environment, to loss of farms, loss of biodiversity, decrease in health, in flavor, in traditions, I could go on an on!) and I honestly believe that it has created conditions that would contribute to the spread of bird flu and other diseases. I wish more people in affluent societies would think critically about where their food came from and try to change things.
Sorry for the rant, this topic has been on my mind a lot lately!
Thank you for visiting my blog- it was nice ‘meeting’ you through behind the apron, too!
I suppose one problem is the obession with huge slabs of meat in the west. I find in Asia although meat is widely available people eat it in much smaller portions. Perhaps one way for people to afford humaely reared (it doesn’t have to be organic) produce is to smaller portions of meat and make up for it with more vegetables and carbohydrate. In Australia, an organic chicken may cost over $20. But for two people I can get two evening meals for two, soup for two and at least two days worth of chicken sandwiches for two people. That’s 10 meals!
bazu: The decreases in animal welfare are amazing, and most people don’t even notice. How many times do we see, for example, pigs in our fields these days? Nobody even notices their absence, let alone wants to think about how they are now grown almost entirely indoors. Another example of profit above animal welfare.
Ed: You’re absolutely right. I wouldn’t call in an exageration that in the UK at least most people see a chicken as purely 2 fillets; noone would think to use the leg meat or make stock from the bones – let alone use the offal! Perhaps raising the costs of meat at a consumer end is the only way we will see a change in industry practises – but even this would have to be carefully controlled.
I’m strongly opposed to factory farming, and have no sympathy whatsoever with the Bernard Matthews company. However, I’m not sure that trying to blame avian flu on intensive farming is entirely helpful to the cause of promoting animal welfare.
Remember that this variant of the virus originated in poor areas of south east asia, where the poultry involved were often entirely free range, sharing the homes of their owners.
Of course, having 160k birds in one farm means that any outbreak spreads more quickly through the flock, but I think the knee-jerk reaction of blaming Bernard Matthews – which I was also guilty of at first – is off the mark.
Go vegan and in one fell swoop you don’t participate in the murder of other species, you become healthier and you help save the planet. The United Nations recently published a report according to which intensive livestock farming is the main reason for global warming. Ben Bradshawm the British Minister of Environement has stated the same.
Neither has been much diffused because there are great interests behind the intensive farming industry.
But we do have a choice.
When are people going to realise that eating dead flesh is wrong. Its unhealthy from the animals rearing to the consuming of it. We create our own ills. Look at our conduct. Search your soul, and tell me it is right what we are doing. The killing alone is so primitive and unnecessary. How can anyone debate the issue of how animals are reared and the cause of disease etc… Are we such simpletons?! You reap what you sow.
Come on people, time to give up the ‘Die Hard’ attitude. And if you value your freedom to be alive, spare a moment for the sentient animal who suffers terribly, and doesn’t have a choice. One should realise pretty soon what is worth debating, and not pathetic reasoning as to how an animal is diseased!!
Hey Scott – nice to find your blog. Has anyone seen the movie Our Daily Bread? It beautifully captures some rather disturbing visuals of mass farming. I recommend. Then, Scott, it may make more sense why there are so many of us veggie bloggers out there
[...] bad news about bird flu entering the UK has sparked off a debate about whether intensive farming is to blame, at least in part, for this latest food scare. Now [...]
KitchenGear: Certainly a valid and fully justified point, which I’m guilty of. I don’t believe the conditions in south east Asia originally were right either, with poor hygiene and control of animals; basically a lack of knowledge. I’d prefer an approach somewhere in the middle – free range farming where animals have a life in un-cramped conditions without additives etc, but where all the hygiene knowledge we currently have is still practiced.
Isabel Reinhards: I’d never heard of the global warming link before. It’s certainly something I will look (and think) more about.
Joanna C: I appreciate your view. Of course meat eaters aren’t going to be swung by it, but it’s still valid in the sense that if we are to justify the killing of an animal for food, we do owe it the best life and care possible. It’s also true (although not entirely moral, or helpful) that many species of animal exist now only in farming situations and not in the wild, and would become extinct if farming of them was to stop.
Vanessa: I haven’t seen it, but it certainly looks interesting. I’ve added a link to the film site in my sidebar (”Elsewhere…”) section so that others can check it out, too.
What are you playing at? I never ever said the words you are putting in my mouth:
Isabel Reinhards: I’d never heard of the global warming link before. It’s certainly something I will look (and think) more about.
I never said such a thing.
The comment I sent – the real one – has shown that I am very well informed indeed, most probably better than you’ll ever be.
What you’ ve done is despicable and I’ll circulate that you are untrustworthy and a manipulator among all my friends. Isabel Reinhards
Isabel Reinhards: Why are you angry?
Your comment is displayed on the site exactly as you posted it, unedited. The part I replied to is this:
“.The United Nations recently published a report according to which intensive livestock farming is the main reason for global warming. Ben Bradshawm the British Minister of Environement has stated the same.”
I simply replied that I’d not heard of that link before – and that I will look into it, because it is interesting. I didn’t degrade your comments in any way, or make any assumptions about you being a vegan – I do, in fact, respect your choice in the matter.
I do feel that your latest response is negative without good cause, however.
Scott : In the wake of global trade, there’s just no set pattern to transportation of livestock and agricultural produce anymore. Just hit the supermarket and look, the range of produce that came from all corners of the world. To discuss this issue would warrant a blog entry in its own right!
Isabel : I have read the UN’s IPCC report summary and I have not yet come across intensive livestock farming as the main reason for global warming. In fact, the report indicated that human is the culprit behind global warming – that means ALL of our actions collectively – particularly when it comes to the consumption of fuel, the process of industrialisation and of course, land use (agriculture included). Namely, human activities since 1750 (in the advent of industrialisation, not domestication).
You also mentioned to go vegan so you’re not murdering another species. I hope you are also aware that plants are living organisms too, and are classed into different species and genus as they rightly deserved. It is not necessarily healthier (some essential nutrients come only from animal sources, unless supplements are taken which mean pumping in artificial components into your body system while supporting more emission from factories that produce them) nor does it help save the planet (when the ecosystem goes into a major imbalance).
Joanna : The real argument shouldn’t be about eating animals or plants, but to be more aware that we should maintain animal welfare, support local produce and drop the demands on global transportation of agronomical products, eat in moderation (we certainly don’t need 12oz of steaks everyday), and of course we care if the livestocks are diseased or not! Have you considered, while we live in privilege, livestock is the only mean of survival in most third world countries and that fresh vegetables are actually a luxury for them! Not only they are source of food, they are also tools for whatever little farming that they can do, for transportation etc. There is a reason why UN set up FAO to encourage research and understanding in rearing livestock and the epidimiology, while promoting animal welfare.
To Lil……
As a long term vegan I just wanted to correct your assumption that a vegan diet may not be the healthiest, and that some essential nutrients come only from animal sources ! Non-vegans do tend to believe this propoganda, probably put about by the meat and dairy industry !
A varied and thought out vegan diet can indeed be extremely healthy and provide all nutrients necessary for a properly functioning human body. As someone in their late fiftes and who is very fit and healthy I am an example of this.
And obviously in being vegan this current ‘drama’ in the press regarding avian influenza does not worry me in the least. what does however is the disgusting and cruel way the living breathing feeling creatures are crammed into tiny spaces to make quick profits for equally disgusting humans !
Lil: All excellent points, it’s great to see people getting involved. Incidentally, Isabel has now sent me the reports to which she originally noted, and they make for some interesting reading. If anyone is interested, get in touch with me via the link at the top of the page.
veganforyears: I think most people acknowledge that fruit and veg can bring some benefits that meat cannot – noone ever speaks of eating meat to prevent cancer, for example. The most important thing is a balanced diet which covers all your nutritional needs, whether or not meat is a part of it.
veganforyears : don’t get me wrong, i’m not saying being vegan is not a good thing. i for one, love my greens and couldn’t get enough of them. i eat meat, but it’s on rare occasion that i do that. i just wanted to point out that being a vegan doesn’t necessarily means it’s healthier than being a non-vegan, and while i am not completely au fait with all the ins and outs of nutrients, i have come across various publications in very reputable science journals which indicate benefits from meat consumption. as scott rightly pointed out, there’s a lot to say about balancing the diet. i just don’t think eating meat means we’re wrong to do so (and therefore disgusting), nor do i think being vegan means it’s better than being an omnivore.
i definitely agree that intensive farming with little regards for animal welfare is wrong. i have been spending the past year trying to study genes that confers immunity in livestock (particularly cattle) so believe me when i say i care. in fact, an emeritus professor from my lab was the one who came up with the test that enable tracing of meat origin, in an effort to raise consciousness of where your meat is coming from and how they were certified. we want to make a different. we do not endorse meat of unknown origin where malpractice could have taken place in order to produce in mass and cheaply.
despite tight budget of a graduate student, i always try to buy local (even if it means paying more) and eat produce that are in season instead of searching for those sent from all over the world. of course, i am far from being infallible and sometimes i do indulge, but most of the time, i buy from the local farmer’s market.
unfortunately, with the uneven spread of wealth in this world, not many people can afford to be ethical, even with the choice given to them. particularly when the low price tags are constantly being dangled in front of them. when they also have other obligations such as rent/mortgage, childcare, bills, it’s difficult to cut the costs involved with these expenses but with food, one feels like he/she could try by reaching for the cheaper product on the shelf as they see it.
and in poor/asian countries where fingers are pointing to be the source of diseases and blames being put on, these are the places where social welfare assistance is nearly non-existence. the majority truly cannot afford to be philosophical and are just trying their best to survive. they are the last people who would want their livestock to be hit by diseases. but disease happen, because it’s always an arm race between the living organisms. our immune system is constantly in battle against foreign organisms. just in this instance, the virus is winning, until we find a way to combat it.
perhaps big developing countries/conglomerates should cut out all the subsidies that they’re giving so that for a change, there can be competitive trade on a global level? poor developing countries often find their prices undercut because of the various subsidies available to agribusinesses from rich countries. overproduction is yet another problem, contributing to the misuse of land.
even i don’t know at which point can we interfere and make a difference at the moment. what a vicious cycle, isn’t it?
Lil: Just a quick follow up and my last !
I exist on a pretty low income yet only ever eat organic food. Keeping a simple existnce is the key and having clear principles and goals about your own lifestyle. I can comment about animal cruelty especially in farming because I have taken the step to have nothing whatsoever to do with it and eat nothing atall from animals, and only ever comment about things I have seen evidence of in reputable documentation and from highly qualified people (Take a look at NotMilk.com). Any health gains, and I know they are many, reaped from following this lifestyle are actually for me a welcome ’spin-off’ and were not at the top my list of reasons for going vegan in the first place.
You sound like a nice, friendly and very intelligent person.give it a try.! Not only would you achieve optimun health but your conscience would be clear (or as clear as it can be in this messed up world). Honest injun, you dont need meat to be healthy. Once the penny drops its easy. thats how it happened for me. Good luck with all your work.
It is very strange that bird flu should be found at the largest establishment of its type in the UK, with no previous outbrekas of this strain, it is sos suspicious that I suspect “foul play”, almost certainly it was introduced deliberately
I see this as the first move to destroy poultry farming in the UK, well I’ll let you guess the likely suspect, there is only one
[...] my last article we spoke all about the treatment of animals (in particular, turkeys and the “Bird Flu” [...]
Lil: You’re right – it’s a viscous cycle. Problem is that the cycle is spiraling, and we’re beginning to destroy everything we once had
veganforyears: It’s a matter of choice, isn’t it? I can certainly see your point of view, though. I considered it myself when I was younger. The notmilk website is really interesting, by the way.
richard dale: I’m now trying to find out who the suspect is, because I’m daft and can’t guess. Is it the cows? :p
veganforyears : only my first part of response refers to your comment, and the rest was meant to be in general, so i apologise if i seemed to have gone off the tangent… i guess i was perhaps a little irked with name callings that non-vegans are cruel and murderers and the likes of it (a little bit like my god is the real one so the one you worship is evil – not going to go into this as it’s a major can of worm!)… it’s easy to cast generalisation without reflecting the other side of the story, hence why i went into a big long nearly-a-blog-entry comment after that… as i mention previously, i eat a lot more veg than meat that even some people i know thought i am vegan… the odd meat purchase that i did do would be local and organic, an attempt to balance my diet, and supporting local and ethical producers… i think my conscience is pretty clear…
thanks for the link and i would have a look at some point but right now, i’m up to my eyes with work it’s nearly not funny anymore, eek!
ok, gosh, scott, sorry i’m half taking over this comment page! we shall definitely try to do our best in trying to figure a way to balance everything out… afterall, as they say, moderation is the key… good post, to bounce off opinions about current issues and raising awareness!
Lil: Never apologise for posting comments – that’s why comments are enabled – to encourage feedback. It’s great to see so many people getting involved with this one.
It is difficult to know who really is at fault for this outbreak – we can of course take it way back to the origional source, Asia. We are allowed confine animals in massive factory farms, keep them in the most unnatural and dirty conditions, and deprive them of all the natural foods they would get from pecking about naturally outside. They are forced to eat a diet which makes them grow fast so they can be sent off to slaughter – and hey, Next ! ! ! Along comes the next few thousands animals to rear in the same horrible conditions – THEN WE ASK WHY THEY GET ILL ?! Farming was never meant to be like this – these animals suffer in these conditions because we the human race want cheap foods and the supermarkets make you play right into this scheme. The animals suffer, YOUR HEALTH WILL EVENTUALLY SUFFER – and someone at the top is making a lot of money out of their suffering !
I for one am glad I don’t contribute to this greedy and cruel business !
Now for bird flu – I am sending you to a site where you can read all about bird flu – the how’s and the why’s and what we should and can do to protect ourselves, and the animals from it.
It will save my having to write a short novel here trying to explain it all !
Please visit Bird Flu: A Virus of Our Own Hatching can be found at
http://www.BirdFluBook.org, there you will also find a video clip – please take a moment to watch it and then explore the site which will give you I am sure answers to all the questions you or your friends may have about it.
The author of this book called Bird Flu: A Virus of Our Own Hatching and the host of this site is Michael Greger, M.D., Director of Public Health and Animal Agriculture at The Humane Society of the United States. He is visiting the UK from June 25 to June 30 (or maybe from the 18th to
the 30th if there is enough interest). If you have any questions or if you are in the position to set up an interested group where he may speak, please feel free to contact him via his site.
Cheers
Mary Alice,
Cornwall’s Voice for Animals ( cvfa/oipa.uk )
Representing The International Organization for Animal Protection
NGO affiliated to the UN Department of Public Information
[...] Last weeks poll (about whether you thought Bernard Matthews were partially to blaim for the recent Bird Flu outbreak) generated a lot of interest and some excellent comments, and so I’ve decided to make Polls a weekly thing, of which this is the second. I’ll start them off on a Sunday and review the results on a Friday ongoing… [...]
[...] Last weeks poll (about whether you thought Bernard Matthews were partially to blaim for the recent Bird Flu outbreak) generated a lot of interest and some excellent comments, and so I’ve decided to make Polls a weekly thing, of which this is the second. I’ll start them off on a Sunday and review the results on a Friday ongoing… [...]